Poll: Three axes

[china_shop]

Poll #33460 Writing process: three axes

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 102

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I identify as a(n)

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discovery writer
32 (31.7%)

outliner
17 (16.8%)

hybrid
50 (49.5%)

other
7 (6.9%)

I primarily rely on

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intuition
64 (62.7%)

methodology (act structure, etc)
9 (8.8%)

something in between
32 (31.4%)

something else
4 (3.9%)

My writing process is

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linear; I write from start to finish
26 (25.5%)

mostly linear, with some jumping around or jumping ahead
53 (52.0%)

non-linear
23 (22.5%)

other
3 (2.9%)

Comments

[china_shop]

Corollary to #1 and #2 -- sometimes I have a structure in mind like "three times" or "these six people's POV on x" or "five days of the week" or whatever. In those cases, I make headings for the different sections in MS Word and sometimes collect a few notes under each heading before I start. Then I discovery write each section in order. I like this approach because it gives me a good sense of progress through the fic, like, "Three sections down; only two to go." :-) But it's not the same as working to three- or five- or seven-act structure. I rely on my intuition for story beats and shape -- and my betas. ;-)

I rarely write things with nonlinear structures, but the time I did that I best remember (10 Reasons To Hate Ray Kowalski, by Raymond Vecchio, Due South, 17k, explicit), I discovery wrote the sections in the order they appear in the fic, and then temporarily shuffled them into chronological order for an editing pass.

[celli]

I have one WIP that I'm writing in bits and pieces instead of linear order and it's such a weird feeling!

[china_shop]

Do you have a sense of how it will come together? :-)

[switchbladeeyes]

I had to look up "discovery writer." I had never heard that particular term before. Always something new to learn! I usually have at least some basic bullet points down for a story that could be considered an outline, but I'm never married to it. The more complicated the story, the more likely I am to have hashed out more details in advance (some of it's so I can keep track of POVs/strike some balance in POVs when I'm alternating them). And sometimes, I just don't know what's going to happen next and write until I figure it out.

I definitely rely on intuition in storytelling. I don't follow any kind of formal structure.

I almost always write in a non-linear fashion. The stories themselves, once completed, are linear. But I bounce around all over in the writing of them. I also don't even really always have a story in mind, but write random scenes that can just chill out until I find a story to stick them in. (I call them "scenes in search of a story" lol.)

[china_shop]

I had to look up "discovery writer." I had never heard that particular term before.

Sorry! Also commonly referred to as "pantser". ;-)

I usually have at least some basic bullet points down for a story that could be considered an outline, but I'm never married to it.

*nodnod* I was watching some EllenBrock videos about different kinds of writer a while back, and she said that if you're not going to outline, you can at least brainstorm a bit before you get started. Such a novel-to-me concept, lol.

But I bounce around all over in the writing of them. I also don't even really always have a story in mind, but write random scenes that can just chill out until I find a story to stick them in. (I call them "scenes in search of a story" lol.)

Hee! I know other people who are like that, too. Whereas I generally need to know what just happened before I can tell what should happen next (and even then...).

[used_songs]

I do the same thing with writing random scenes. I have notebooks full of them and every now and then I read through what I have and see if anything sparks.

[trobadora]

I do outline but that's not really what's central to me - that's reverse-engineering things from an ending, or a climactic scene, that I have in mind. And between that and writing very nonlinearly, outlining is just the tool I use to figure out how all the puzzle pieces fit together. Much easier than trying to hold it all in my mind, LOL.

(I have written in different ways, but I find it very difficult!)

[china_shop]

I always wonder how you fit the nonlinear pieces together. It makes perfect sense you'd need some kind of outline for that -- like the picture on a jigsaw puzzle box. ;-)

[axolotls]

I almost always write a scene from start to finish without much if any editing, but I will jump around in the timeline a lot otherwise. Not quite sure what discovery writer means, though? Haven't heard the term before!

[china_shop]

A discovery writer is someone who doesn't plan the story out in advance, but sets up some characters and a problem, and discovers the story as they go. (I believe Stephen King is a high-profile example.) AKA "pantser". :-)

[shivver]

I chose "outliner" here but I'm not sure it really fits. It implies having mapped out the story before starting to write, and I only do that if the story is sufficiently long or complicated -- and even then, I may end up changing that outline as I write. Most often, though, I have a vague plan of what I want to accomplish and go from there, and adapt that plan as I go along. I didn't think that really qualified as "hybrid". I'm certainly not a discovery writer.

I found the distinction between "intuition" vs "methodology" interesting. You'd think that as an outliner, I'd also cleave to methodology, but I don't. I compose my stories based on how I think it'll read and feel, and that's definitely intuition. I've taken a couple of creative writing classes where we studied the three-act structure, Freytag's pyramid, and others, and they felt completely alien and useless. I kept thinking, "Why worry about all this stuff? Just put the story together so that it's interesting and flows well." Which is why I'm not a writing teacher. :)

I am totally non-linear. I always write the most interesting and/or fun parts of a story first, then stitch them all together later. Sometimes that means I have to rewrite whole sections as my intent changes during the writing.

[china_shop]

Most often, though, I have a vague plan of what I want to accomplish and go from there, and adapt that plan as I go along. I didn't think that really qualified as "hybrid". I'm certainly not a discovery writer.

I think it's a continuum, depending on your degree of vagueness? ;-) I'm a discovery writer, but I always know what genre I'm writing (often romance, sometimes casefic or "personal growth" story) -- I can't start without that -- and the opening naturally sets up certain expectations about where the story will end up. I just don't tend to have much idea of how I'm going to get there. There's a metaphor about driving at night and only seeing as far as your headlight beam.

And I'm not sure where the boundaries of "hybrid" are either. I tend to think of outliners as having a structure written down, and a lot of notes, and being very clear about what they're doing. But maybe that's not true for all of them/you. :-)

I compose my stories based on how I think it'll read and feel, and that's definitely intuition. I've taken a couple of creative writing classes where we studied the three-act structure, Freytag's pyramid, and others, and they felt completely alien and useless. I kept thinking, "Why worry about all this stuff? Just put the story together so that it's interesting and flows well." Which is why I'm not a writing teacher. :)

Ha, I relate to this a lot. I enjoy thinking about story mechanics and structural models in the abstract, but I only ever consciously apply them to my writing when I'm rewriting, and even then, only in a very vague way. I rely on my betas a lot. But I like to think that spending time dwelling on the concepts informs my intuition so less rewriting is required? Idk.

[shadaras]

I have a skeleton of an outline (key scenes, some vibes) that's more in-depth the longer a piece is. Like if it's just a handful of scenes that aren't complicated, I probably hold it in my head. Once it's past ~5k or so, I start writing down notes, and once it's over 20k I have a legit outline. Any given entry on an outline is usually a single simple sentence marking a scene that needs to happen, not particularly detailed, but it's still an outline!

Methodology vs intuition as a dichotomy interests me, because my intuition is based on internalization of methodology? Like, I know the feel of pacing and use that to guide myself most of the time, not thinking so much about "okay X structure says Y should happen" so much as "I need an emotional turning point soon".

I write linearly as presented by the story, which means that non-linear stories are written non-linearly because I need information to be given to the reader in the correct order more than I need to write the events as they happened in the correct order. Occasionally I'll write non-linearly in that a thing I wrote suggests that something else happened previously, and then I'll bounce back to write that before I forget about it, but I rarely write ahead.

[china_shop]

Any given entry on an outline is usually a single simple sentence marking a scene that needs to happen, not particularly detailed, but it's still an outline!

Ah, this is one of the things I get stuck on with outlines: I don't know what to put in one that would actually work for me. I've tried making event-specific outlines, but then I have to push the characters into doing the thing, and the character arcs get kind of lost. It's something I'm still trying to figure out, because outlining seems like such an efficient approach, but I have a mental block when it comes to implementing it. ;-p

Methodology vs intuition as a dichotomy interests me, because my intuition is based on internalization of methodology?

*nodnod* I think that's the ideal state of being! I have much better structural intuition for some genres than others. Sometimes I just flounder around. /o\

I write linearly as presented by the story, which means that non-linear stories are written non-linearly

Same here. Do you write non-linear stories very often?

[mific]

I'm a pantser/discovery writer for short fics, but I almost always outline longer fics - not too extensively, but so I have some idea of what I want to cover in each part. For fics of about 20,000 words or more I'll outline more extensively, like, I'll try to estimate chunks of 1000 or so words and then tackle those as a day's writing. Or I used to - bit out of practice with longer fics these days. Very linear, although sometimes I'll realise I need more in an earlier section and will go back and expand it or add an extra bit. I guess I write intuitively? For harlequiney fics I'm aware of the boy meets boy, boy loses boy, boy gets boy back again structure, and I read about the hero's journey once but don't think I've ever really used that. I occasionally use structures - 5 things is a fave, and a couple of times I did a writing exercise for fun where it goes: "Write a short story where the first sentence has 20 words, 2nd sentence has 19, 3rd has 18 etc. Story ends with a single word." It tends to morph into something like a prose poem as the lines get shorter. e.g. this one. Oh, and a couple of times I've used a word-meanings structure - where I find a word with several distinct meanings and write a section or a short fic based on each meaning. The sections are linked either by the characters/pairing, or in one case the bits also told a sequential story. I've used "tender" and "couch" so far.

[china_shop]

I'm a pantser/discovery writer for short fics, but I almost always outline longer fics - not too extensively, but so I have some idea of what I want to cover in each part.

This seems very sensible. I wish I could do it, lol. :D

Oh, and a couple of times I've used a word-meanings structure - where I find a word with several distinct meanings and write a section or a short fic based on each meaning.

Ooh, that's a nifty idea. *tucks it in my back pocket* (I've been thinking we could have a post about different structural devices like 5 times and so on. Note to self! :D)

[used_songs]

I wrote a story once that drew from House of Leaves and I ended up drawing the floorplan of my space and making notes on there to use for the actual story.

[bluedreaming]

Oh wow, that’s so neat!

[bluedreaming]

It’s funny; I would consider myself a pantser 100% and yet when I think about anything I’ve written that was more than a triple drabble (or the very rare drabble that grew wings), it’s A) usually for an event with a deadline and word minimum and B) I carve it up into word count chunks and other sections, depending on the particular story and assignment, and it’s basically structured in a stranglehold 😂

Edit: should probably clarify: I don’t really write longer things, so when I say stranglehold, I mean that I’ve carved this 1000-2500 word fic in #-word chunks, each assigned some particular goal or mini-plot bit or mood or whatever.

As for chronology, most recently I wrote a fic that is read in reverse-chronology, but I wrote the bits all out of order. Usually, though, I’m fairly linear writer, but linear in reading order, not necessarily chronology.

[china_shop]

and B) I carve it up into word count chunks and other sections, depending on the particular story and assignment, and it’s basically structured in a stranglehold 😂

Hee! So do you know in advance what each section will consist of? How much do you plan that out?

I sometimes do a rotating POV (ie, each member of a group gets one section), and I'll make headings for that in advance and sometimes a few notes for each section, but that's for shorter/mid-length stories. The longer the story, the less idea I have how to get where I'm going, I think. ;-)

I’m fairly linear writer, but linear in reading order, not necessarily chronology.

Going by the comments here, this seems a not uncommon approach. :-)

[teaotter]

I tend to call myself a discovery writer, but that isn't entirely true. I don't start with an outline, I start with a sense of rhythm.

I don't even know how to describe it well, but it's like I have the musical score to the story, or I'm listening to it from another room but can't make out the details. Like the musical equivalent of a watercolor blob. I know if it starts soft or hard, where the conversations happen, about how long they last, what kind of moods are happening. It's nothing as solid as an outline, but it's also not completely unknown. There's a pattern that I'm trying to match.

But at the same time, I don't really know any of the details of the story until I tell it. I'm often surprised when I go back to edit my draft and discover I'm telling an entirely different story (thematically) than I thought I was. *waves hands vaguely*

My rough drafts are 90% dialogue, with some stage directions and action blocking. If the story is long enough, I can go back to the beginning and start filling in the first draft before I've finished the rough draft, but both the rough draft and the first draft have to be done from start to finish; I can't jump around.

I rely entirely on intuition until I get to the revision phase, and even then, I'm more likely to move things to better meet the rhythm in my head than I am to match up to an arbitrary act structure.

[mific]

That sounds almost synesthetic. I have that link with rhythm and music with poetry, and with the flow of prose, but not really with the plot or overview of a story. I like the way you describe as like conducting music, or like shapes emerging in a painting.

[feroxargentea]

It's intriguing to see how many people do the exact opposite of me. I know what I'm planning, but I write it in randomly ordered fragments to be stitched together at the last minute, which now that I think about it doesn't *sound* all that sensible, heh. But it's just a hobby and needs to be fun, so it makes sense to write whichever section feels fun that day.

[mific]

So different! When you say you know what you're planning, is that like an outline? Or more that you have the overall shape of the story in your head?

[overmore]

I'd consider myself a hybrid, mainly because I usually have the story idea with a beginning and an end, and those never truly change. How I get to those, however, is a different story and almost always changes at least two or three times during the writing process, regardless of whether it's short work or a long one. This does sometimes cause plot holes in longer works, but I manage it after sitting down and thinking about it really hard, and eventually I get to the solution. This is something that happened for my current long project and let me tell you, I was very happy about it, even if it's nowhere near close to being finished right now.

I primarily rely on intuition. Not really much else I could say here.

Mostly linear. I've had very few situations where I jump around the work and write out of order. I've only really had one notable time I wrote a scene that later became a part of a longer fic, and even that is not finished yet. I do like that I was able to bould around it when it comes to what happens in the work.

[mific]

Interesting. I can think my way through if it's a logistical plot issue, but sometimes I have to sit with a story problem for a while until a solution comes to me.

[tinypinkmouse]

Also had not heard of a discovery writer before, but I assume that's what I am. In fact, I'm very strongly the first option on all of these. I overwhelmingly just start at the beginning and then just keep going until I find out what happens. And then keep going until I go "oh, this feels like an ending."

My notes are almost nonexistent. I do try to remember to jot down some things so I don't forget if they're really important. The problem of having almost 200 WIPs is that it's really hard to remember what I was doing with all of them. Outlines are... Well I think I have one for one WIP. It didn't help.

The only times I really find myself writing non-linearly is when the story is told non-linearly. And then I write it in the order that things are supposed to appear in the fic once it's done.

[china_shop]

*high fives you* I'm the same on all counts (but I don't have 200 WIPs, wow!). :D

Do you find you usually just work on one thing at once, or do you flit between projects, or something in between? :D

[verushka70]

Discovery all the way. Sometimes I think that's why I have so many unfinished WIPs... but then that's probably way more due to my later-diagnosed ADHD (age 42 - yes, it did seem like the answer to my life, the universe, and everything, lol!) than it is due to being a discovery writer.

I used to truly wish I were more linear but when I've tried to be linear about writing fic, it feels very constricting and I get stuck way faster/earlier. (Except if it's nonfiction for course papers or work - then I can muster the linear thinking and logic required to do what the paper or project requires. I do not know why this is the case, but it is 🤷‍♀️).

I mostly just have an idea for a scene or scenes, or something specific I want to occur - which inspires me to start writing in the first place - so I write that. Then I write what has to happen first to make that scene happen, write other scenes, stitch those together as others have mentioned, and finally I write an ending. On occasion the scene that inspired me to write the fic is the ending - so then I must write the beginning and middle.

I sometimes like to take pinch hits in exchanges, to expand my repertoire of what I can/will write in a particular fandom. I have few squicks or "will not write"s, so that helps. It helps me push myself. I never thought of it this way before now, but that's about the only time my linear work/school brain and my fic writing brain collaborate to produce a fic.

Sometimes it's very hard to do that, though, and I'm writing down to the wire or even need an extension. I used to be fueled and inspired by last minute writing to deadlines much more when I was younger. But I can't take that kind of anxiety/panic anymore - and rather than helping, sometimes it becomes paralyzing 🤦‍♀️ - so I'm much better about coming in ahead of deadlines for fics/exchanges now.

I rarely outline - typically well after the fact, and almost always because I've gotten stuck or (far more often) because I've written such a verbose behemoth of a fic (often over a very extended period of time) that it's become confusing even to me, sigh. I don't think I've ever outlined a fic before I began writing it. Course papers and work projects, yes; fic, no.

Sometimes I really do wish my brain didn't work this way, and wish that it was much more linear. But that's become much rarer as I've gotten older and passed into the IDGAF phase of my life. 🙂 These days I'm pretty grateful that my brain works the way it does - at least, for ficcing. The rest of my life, not so much, but I'm done fighting the way my brain works because now I know there's no point trying to do that. I just have to work with what I've got, and comparison is the thief of joy anyway.

[soricel]

I relate to this big time!

[soricel]

I actually really had to think about this! Like, I know I'm not an outliner...there are few things that kill my motivation more than seeing a checklist of scenes I have to work my way through. That said, I rarely sit down to a blank doc with nothing in mind and then just completely pants it...by the time I sit down to write, a certain scene or snippet of dialogue that's been rattling around in my head has accreted a few other hazy ideas, but they don't really have a clear direction until I start daisy-chaining them together in the actual writing process. So I guess that makes me more of a discovery writer?

I'm also noticing as I reflect here that I don't often get very inspired by prompts/themes/concepts...it's almost always something that I can see or hear in my head that I then feel compelled to give some shape and direction to...

This is also making me think about what I feel like is an abundance of fics that begin with some form of a past perfect sentence (like "By the time X ___, Y had already..." or "X hadn't planned on ___, but..."). I wonder if there's any correlation between one's tendency to use a structure like this and one's writing process in terms of these three axes...?

[china_shop]

by the time I sit down to write, a certain scene or snippet of dialogue that's been rattling around in my head has accreted a few other hazy ideas, but they don't really have a clear direction until I start daisy-chaining them together in the actual writing process. So I guess that makes me more of a discovery writer?

*nodnod* I would call that discovery writing, I think.

it's almost always something that I can see or hear in my head that I then feel compelled to give some shape and direction to...

Ooh, that's interesting. For me, it's a(n often emotional) point of friction or problem that the characters want to address. I guess that means a lot of my stories are driven by character/relationship arcs rather than an external plot arc. But then, I don't have an inner eye, so I can't get inspirational images in my head. (This could be a whole 'nother post/discussion: what is the "seed" of a story? *makes a note* :D)

This is also making me think about what I feel like is an abundance of fics that begin with some form of a past perfect sentence (like "By the time X _, Y had already..." or "X hadn't planned on _, but...").

Do you mean that outliners might use that structure more? You might be right! Sometimes I use something like that as kind of a prompt/dare to myself. Like, I have one story that begins, "It started so stupidly that afterwards Da Qing pretended he couldn’t remember what had happened." But all I really knew when I embarked on writing it was a) bodyswap! and b) where in canon I wanted to set it. Sometimes those kind of foreshadowing starts might be tone-setting, as well, I think? :-)

[kalloway]

95% Pantser, 5% 'here are the bare minimum plot bits that need to get shoved in here'. It'd be nice if I was a little better at middles.

Generally, I write linearly but there are times when I know a scene I want later on and will at least sketch it in so I know where I'm headed.

But it's also been ages since I managed anything longish anyway so it's all kind of shrug-emoji atm. Someday I'll retrieve my focus and get some projects done.

[china_shop]

Middles are so hard! Why is that?

Generally, I write linearly but there are times when I know a scene I want later on and will at least sketch it in so I know where I'm headed.

*nodnod* I do that, too -- mostly just dialogue, though.

*fingers crossed for your focus to return sometime soon* <3

[rattfan]

I call it "pantser" as well. I do this to some degree, thinking ahead a few moves, but sometimes realise it's not going to work, and then I have to go back and change things so it fits together. Or some comment makes me realise that I didn't fully deal with a thread.

I once got invaluable advice from a writer friend who says that when completely stuck, you write the characters having sex. Even if the only beings present are the hero and his horse.

[china_shop]

LOLOLOL! :D

Thinking a few moves ahead is ideal -- at least when you sit down to write you know what to do! I'm currently in a "I don't know what happens in the next paragraph" state, which is a bit like pulling teeth. /o\

[arcanetrivia]

In the past (2007-2011 when I was writing in another fandom) I was almost always linear, without ever making outlines, and I guess intuition? Now, it tends to depend on the length. Something short (like a couple of thousand words) still pretty much adheres to that although I may do things like "write down the bit that is grabbing me right now and then expand on it", which can sometimes lead to starting at the end or in the middle or stitching together two bits that turn out not to go right next to each other. I've only ever written a few fics over 10k, but now that I am occasionally doing it, I do outlines... for a certain value of "outline" lol. it tends to be kind of a header with a lot of rambling notes per section rather than the real structure of an outline, and I absolutely will jump all over the place as it comes together. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "intuition" vs. the other things, but I'm pretty sure I'm not using any formal methodology or I would know I was doing that. I'm just... trying and failing a lot.

[china_shop]

In the past (2007-2011 when I was writing in another fandom) I was almost always linear, without ever making outlines, and I guess intuition? Now, it tends to depend on the length.

It's so interesting how approaches can change. Do you think it's the different fandom, or because you're a more experienced writer, or something else? (I used to sometimes write post-as-you-go WIPs, and I wouldn't dream of doing that in my current fandom, because I invariably end up doing a lot more overhaul-type editing.)

it tends to be kind of a header with a lot of rambling notes per section rather than the real structure of an outline

That's the best kind of outline for me. It gives you room to breathe, right? :D

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "intuition" vs. the other things, but I'm pretty sure I'm not using any formal methodology or I would know I was doing that. I'm just... trying and failing a lot.

Yeah, that's what I meant. *cheers you on* :-)